9
$\begingroup$

Given a regular logic $\mathcal{L}$, let $\preccurlyeq_\mathcal{L}$ be the usual elementary submodelhood relation for $\mathcal{L}$. There is also a separate submodelhood relation coming from the Tarski-Vaught test: say that $\mathfrak{A}\trianglelefteq_\mathcal{L}\mathfrak{B}$ if $\mathfrak{A}$ is a substructure of $\mathfrak{B}$ and for every $\mathcal{L}$-formula $\varphi$ with parameters from $\mathfrak{A}$ we have $$\varphi^\mathfrak{B}\not=\emptyset\implies \varphi^\mathfrak{B}\cap\mathfrak{A}^{arity(\varphi)}\not=\emptyset.$$

Usually $\trianglelefteq_\mathcal{L}$ is strictly between $\subseteq$ and $\preccurlyeq_\mathcal{L}$. Now every logic $\mathcal{L}$ has a distinguished fragment which "plays nicely" with this substructurehood relation, namely $$\mathcal{L}_{TV}:=\{\varphi\in\mathcal{L}: \mathfrak{A}\trianglelefteq_\mathcal{L}\mathfrak{B}\implies\varphi^\mathfrak{A}=\varphi^\mathfrak{B}\cap\mathfrak{A}^{arity(\varphi)}\}.$$ In general we need not have $\mathcal{L}_{TV}=(\mathcal{L}_{TV})_{TV}$, and so we can non-boringly iterate this process through the ordinals:

  • $\mathcal{L}_{TV(0)}=\mathcal{L}$,

  • $\mathcal{L}_{TV(\alpha+1)}=(\mathcal{L}_{TV(\alpha)})_{TV}$, and

  • $\mathcal{L}_{TV(\lambda)}=\bigcap_{\alpha<\lambda}\mathcal{L}_{TV(\alpha)}$ for $\lambda$ limit.


I've asked at MSE about one aspect of this process applied to second-order logic for a single step; here I'd like to ask an orthogonal question. Let the TV-number of a logic $\mathcal{L}$ be the least $\gamma$ such that $\mathcal{L}_{TV(\gamma)}=\mathcal{L}_{TV(\gamma+1)}$.

What is the TV-number of second-order logic?

Embarrassingly, as far as I know we could have $\gamma=1$ (we can't have $\gamma=0$ since $\mathsf{SOL}_{TV}$ has the full downward Lowenheim-Skolem property). I'd separately be interested in any references about this construction; the abstract model theory literature is messy, and I'd like to avoid reinventing as many wheels as possible.

Motivation: The $TV$-process is basically a quick way of whipping up logics with the downward Lowenheim-Skolem property or analogues thereof (count the formulas and think about Skolem functions), but given that it's not idempotent the "$TV^\infty$-process" $\mathcal{L}\leadsto \bigcap_{\alpha\in \mathit{Ord}}\mathcal{L}_{TV(\alpha)}$ may actually be a more natural way of producing such logics. I'm especially interested in second-order logic and its fragments, and so this question is basically a step towards figuring out which of $TV$ or $TV^\infty$ I should be thinking about at the moment.

$\endgroup$
2
  • 3
    $\begingroup$ I was going to ask about iterating the $TV$ operator on your other question, but I never got around to it. $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 15, 2021 at 0:01
  • 4
    $\begingroup$ I hereby propose that the process be called "televise" as in "Noah televised second-order logic". $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 17, 2021 at 8:05

0

You must log in to answer this question.

Start asking to get answers

Find the answer to your question by asking.

Ask question

Explore related questions

See similar questions with these tags.