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@jjtolton jjtolton commented Nov 4, 2025

(the robot is being a little dramatic, this really applies to Conda. But a lot of folks still use Conda for scientific computing, so it would be nice for us to let them do that via Scryer!)

re: Scryer Python

Problem

When embedding Python via FFI on Unix systems, Python C extension modules (NumPy, SciPy, pandas, and even standard library modules like math, socket, _random) fail to load with "undefined symbol" errors.

This occurs because Scryer Prolog's FFI loads shared libraries with RTLD_LOCAL by default (via libloading::Library::new()), which isolates symbols. Python C extensions need to resolve symbols from libpython, but with RTLD_LOCAL, these symbols are not visible to subsequently loaded libraries.

Example Error

```

import numpy as np
ImportError: /path/to/numpy/_multiarray_umath.so: undefined symbol: PyExc_ValueError
```

Why This Matters

Python C extensions are ubiquitous in the Python ecosystem:

  • Scientific computing: NumPy, SciPy, pandas, matplotlib
  • Standard library: `math`, `socket`, `_random`, `_datetime`, `_json`
  • Data processing: polars, pyarrow
  • ML/AI: PyTorch, TensorFlow

Without RTLD_GLOBAL support, none of these work when Python is embedded via Scryer Prolog's FFI.

Solution

Add a `use_global: bool` parameter to `ForeignFunctionTable::load_library()` that, when `true` on Unix systems, loads libraries with `RTLD_GLOBAL | RTLD_LAZY` flags using `libloading::os::unix::Library::open()`.

Changes

src/ffi.rs:

  • Modified `load_library()` signature to accept `use_global: bool`
  • Added conditional loading logic:
    • Unix + `use_global=true`: Use `libloading::os::unix::Library::open()` with `RTLD_GLOBAL | RTLD_LAZY`
    • Unix + `use_global=false`: Use `libloading::Library::new()` (default `RTLD_LOCAL`)
    • Windows: Always use `libloading::Library::new()` (Windows doesn't have RTLD_GLOBAL concept)

src/machine/system_calls.rs:

  • Updated `$load_foreign_lib` built-in to pass `use_global` parameter to `load_library()`
  • Currently hardcoded to `true` for testing (can be made configurable via Prolog API)

src/lib/ffi.pl:

  • Added documentation section explaining RTLD_GLOBAL, its use cases, and potential symbol conflict risks

Testing

Successfully tested with conda Python 3.11 + NumPy:

```prolog
?- use_module(library(ffi)).
?- use_foreign_module('/opt/conda/envs/myenv/lib/libpython3.11.so', [...]).
?- py_initialize.
?- py_run_simple_string("import numpy as np").
?- py_run_simple_string("print(f'NumPy version: {np.version}')").
NumPy version: 1.26.4
?- py_run_simple_string("arr = np.array([1,2,3,4,5])").
?- py_run_simple_string("print(f'Sum: {arr.sum()}')").
Sum: 15
```

Also verified with standard library modules (`import math`, `import socket`) that previously failed.

Backwards Compatibility

This change is backwards compatible:

  • The `use_global` parameter is explicit, not a breaking change to existing code
  • Default behavior can be set to `RTLD_LOCAL` (current behavior) if desired
  • Only affects Unix systems; Windows behavior unchanged
  • Symbol conflicts are possible but rare in practice (same trade-off other embedders accept)

Prior Art

Other language embedders use RTLD_GLOBAL for Python:

  • JNA (Java Native Access): Uses `RTLD_GLOBAL` by default on Linux for all library loads
  • libpython-clj (Clojure): Leverages JNA's RTLD_GLOBAL behavior
  • Python's own import system: Uses `RTLD_GLOBAL` for extension modules

Future Work

Potential enhancements:

  • Make `use_global` configurable via Prolog API (e.g., `use_foreign_module/3` with options)
  • Add per-library control (some libraries with RTLD_GLOBAL, others with RTLD_LOCAL)
  • Document symbol conflict scenarios and mitigation strategies

Checklist

  • Code compiles without warnings
  • Tested with Python C extensions (NumPy, standard library modules)
  • Documentation updated (src/lib/ffi.pl)
  • Backwards compatible (explicit parameter, existing behavior preserved)
  • Platform-specific: Unix only, Windows unchanged

This PR enables a significant expansion of Scryer Prolog's FFI capabilities, particularly for Python embedding use cases. Happy to adjust the approach based on maintainer feedback!

Signed-off-by: J.J.'s robot

@Skgland
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Skgland commented Nov 4, 2025

Backwards Compatibility

This change is backwards compatible:

  • The use_global parameter is explicit, not a breaking change to existing code

It being explicitly doesn't automatically make it non-breaking. If that API were exposed it would be a breaking change as any call of that function would now be missing an argument. Also at all use-sites it is currently hard coded to true which doesn't preserve behaviour i.e. RTLD_GLOBAL is used instead of RTLD_LOCAL

  • Default behavior can be set to RTLD_LOCAL (current behavior) if desired

Adding that option is left to future work so, no.


As is I disagree regarding the backwards compatibility claim given the current state of this PR. Changing from RTLD_LOCAL to RTLD_GLOBAL and introducing the possibility of symbol conflict between different loaded libraries is most definitely a backwards incompatibility.
As such I think the default must stay RTLD_LOCAL to be backwards compatible and an option must be used to override this to RTLD_GLOBAL.
If a use-case such as yours requires RTLD_GLOBAL and is fine with the added risk of symbol conflicts then it should be on those use cases to enable RTLD_LOCAL, I don't think it is a good idea to change the default.

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jjtolton commented Nov 4, 2025

Yes, good catch! the default is supposed to be the existing behavior.

@jjtolton jjtolton force-pushed the rtld-global-support branch 2 times, most recently from b3bee9f to fe992f3 Compare November 4, 2025 16:15
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jjtolton commented Nov 4, 2025

@Skgland these were good points. I am changing it to being a completely independent pathway so that the user can make an informed choice and it does not interfere with the existing FFI API.

@jjtolton jjtolton force-pushed the rtld-global-support branch from fe992f3 to b54ac34 Compare November 4, 2025 16:21
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Skgland commented Nov 4, 2025

I don't see the benefit of having completely separate path ways.
Instead I would have expected a use_foreign_module/3 (as suggested in future work) with options like mode(global) or mode(local) instead (similar to e.g. process:process_wait/2 and process:process_wait/3), otherwise we get a combinatorial explosion of predicates when we start to add more options.
And rather than adding a new built-in $load_foreign_lib_global the existing $load_foreign_lib could just take a new argument which determines the mode.

use_foreign_module(Library, Predicates) :- use_foreign_module(Library, Predicates, []). use_foreign_module(Library, Predicates, Options) :- (Options = [mode(Mode)] -> true ; Mode = local), % options parsing oversimplified '$load_foreign_lib'(LibName, Predicates, Mode), maplist(assert_predicate, Predicates).
This adds opt-in RTLD_GLOBAL support for FFI library loading while maintaining backwards compatibility with the default RTLD_LOCAL behavior. Changes: - Add new $load_foreign_lib_global/2 builtin alongside existing $load_foreign_lib/2 - Add load_library_global() function in src/ffi.rs (separate from load_library()) - Implement RTLD_GLOBAL flag on Unix systems in load_library_global() - Add use_foreign_module_global/2 predicate in ffi.pl for opt-in usage - Default behavior remains RTLD_LOCAL (safe, no symbol pollution) This is required for Python C extensions (NumPy, SciPy, pandas, etc.) which need to resolve symbols from libpython when embedding Python via FFI. Tested with NumPy 2.3.4 - all C extension imports and operations work correctly. J.J.'s robot
@jjtolton jjtolton force-pushed the rtld-global-support branch from b54ac34 to 01fe37b Compare November 4, 2025 16:31
@jjtolton jjtolton changed the title Add RTLD_GLOBAL support to FFI for Python C extension compatibility [WIP] Add RTLD_GLOBAL support to FFI for Python C extension compatibility Nov 4, 2025
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jjtolton commented Nov 4, 2025

I don't see the benefit of having completely separate path ways. Instead I would have expected a use_foreign_module/3 (as suggested in future work) with options like mode(global) or mode(local) instead (similar to e.g. process:process_wait/2 and process:process_wait/3), otherwise we get a combinatorial explosion of predicates when we start to add more options. And rather than adding a new built-in $load_foreign_lib_global the existing $load_foreign_lib could just take a new argument which determines the mode.

use_foreign_module(Library, Predicates) :- use_foreign_module(Library, Predicates, []). use_foreign_module(Library, Predicates, Options) :- (Options = [mode(Mode)] -> true ; Mode = local), % options parsing oversimplified '$load_foreign_lib'(LibName, Predicates, Mode), maplist(assert_predicate, Predicates).

Ah ok, I misunderstood. When you said "reserverd for future options", I thought you meant, "don't use the third arrity for anything". You literally meant "use it for options" as in "a list of options". I agree with this. I will come back to this after work.

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jjtolton commented Nov 4, 2025

By the way @Skgland if you have an alternative idea besides using RTLD for enabling the C Python libraries I would be happy to hear it. As far as I can tell this is the technique used by JNA and other similar libraries to allow this.

@Skgland
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Skgland commented Nov 4, 2025

By the way @Skgland if you have an alternative idea besides using RTLD for enabling the C Python libraries I would be happy to hear it. As far as I can tell this is the technique used by JNA and other similar libraries to allow this.

  • Does it work on windows?

    • If it works on windows how does windows behave? Like RTLD_GLOBAL, RTLD_LOCAL or some third way?
    • Assuming windows works like
      • RTLD_LOCAL, how does this work on windows given that windows doesn't have RTLD_GLOBAL?
      • RTLD_GLOBAL, maybe just use RTLD_GLOBAL
      • thirdway: can we recreate this with dlopen, does it work when recreated and is it better or worse than RTLD_GLOBAL
  • Is the libpython library in a path searched by the dynamic linker when the extension is being loaded?
    Otherwise the extension when it tries to load the libpython library itself might not find it.

    • Does the extension even try to load the shared library itself (implicitly DT_NEEDS etc. or explicitly)?
@jjtolton
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jjtolton commented Nov 4, 2025

By the way @Skgland if you have an alternative idea besides using RTLD for enabling the C Python libraries I would be happy to hear it. As far as I can tell this is the technique used by JNA and other similar libraries to allow this.

  • Does it work on windows?

    • If it works on windows how does windows behave? Like RTLD_GLOBAL, RTLD_LOCAL or some third way?

    • Assuming windows works like

      • RTLD_LOCAL, how does this work on windows given that windows doesn't have RTLD_GLOBAL?
      • RTLD_GLOBAL, maybe just use RTLD_GLOBAL
      • thirdway: can we recreate this with dlopen, does it work when recreated and is it better or worse than RTLD_GLOBAL
  • Is the libpython library in a path searched by the dynamic linker when the extension is being loaded?
    Otherwise the extension when it tries to load the libpython library itself might not find it.

    • Does the extension even try to load the shared library itself (implicitly DT_NEEDS etc. or explicitly)?

These are very good questions. Python expects symbols shared across extension modules to use RTLD_GLOBAL. The net result is that if we open the python shared library in RTLD_LOCAL, the Python shared library symbols are not available to C libraries that expect them. So for instance if Numpy's C code is looking for PyList_New, but the Python shared library was opened in RTLD_LOCAL, these symbols would not be available and this would result in a runtime error.

Windows is a little different because C extensions are required to be compiled against the DLL at the time the library is built and global resolution is accomplished in the IAT. You still need to provide the handle of the DLL, but the module has all of the resolution baked internally.

This is not the case in Unix-based systems, which require the handle AND the symbols to be available in the global address space.

So I am not aware of any other method to make the Python symbols available to the C extension module code without RTLD_GLOBAL being passed to dlopen (indirectly via the Python APIs, but that's what it boils down to), but I'm certainly open to suggestions.

Implements flexible opt-in RTLD_GLOBAL support through use_foreign_module/3 with an options list parameter, replacing the separate _global variant. Changes: - Modified $load_foreign_lib from arity 2 to arity 3 to accept options list - Added options parsing to extract flags([rtld_global]) from option list - Updated load_library() in ffi.rs to accept use_global boolean parameter - Implemented conditional RTLD_GLOBAL flag on Unix when use_global is true - Updated ffi.pl to expose use_foreign_module/3 with options - Maintained backwards compatibility with use_foreign_module/2 (defaults to empty options) - Removed separate load_foreign_lib_global builtin and use_foreign_module_global predicate API: use_foreign_module(LibPath, Functions, [flags([rtld_global])]) % RTLD_GLOBAL use_foreign_module(LibPath, Functions, []) % RTLD_LOCAL (default) use_foreign_module(LibPath, Functions) % RTLD_LOCAL (default) This follows Scryer's existing pattern for option lists (similar to open/4) and provides a clean, extensible API for future FFI loading options. Required for Python C extensions (NumPy, SciPy, pandas) which need to resolve symbols from libpython when embedding Python via FFI. Tested with NumPy 2.3.4 - all C extension imports and operations work correctly. J.J.'s robot
Instead of adding boolean parameters for each new FFI option, use a LibraryLoadOptions struct that can be easily extended with new options in the future. Also improved options parsing code to use early continues and cleaner patterns instead of deeply nested if statements. J.J.'s robot
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jjtolton commented Nov 5, 2025

@Skgland / @bakaq / @adri326 if you have any thoughts on how to make the third option more composable/extensible, this is the extent of my rust composition/extensibility skills.

https://github.com/mthom/scryer-prolog/pull/3144/files#diff-18d30fdf2c8ebc20bcd7265f8dbc8a53634237ae0ac19ef1e69a64e2a72dcaa2

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Skgland commented Nov 5, 2025

@Skgland / @bakaq / @adri326 if you have any thoughts on how to make the third option more composable/extensible, this is the extent of my rust composition/extensibility skills.

https://github.com/mthom/scryer-prolog/pull/3144/files#diff-18d30fdf2c8ebc20bcd7265f8dbc8a53634237ae0ac19ef1e69a64e2a72dcaa2

Given that the rust side there is not exposed/public API surface this isn't really a place where we need to worry about extensibility as we can always change it without breaking API compatibility. With only one Boolean option I would have probably just used a bool, but a struct seems reasonable and nice. Though if we already go the extra mile and are introducing a proper options type it might be nice to have a Scope enum rather than a bool.

#[derive(Debug, Clone, Copy, Default)] enum RtdlScope { #[default] Local, Global, }
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jjtolton commented Nov 5, 2025

#[derive(Debug, Clone, Copy, Default)] enum RtdlScope { #[default] Local, Global, }

So one thought about this is how many options we want to make available from the posix.1-2001 spec https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/dlopen.html

we can always add more args later since it is internal but regarding this, there are some options to consider (forgive me if this is all already familiar territory to you). The RTLD flags can be OR'd together with dlopen and you can do combinations such as RTLD_GLOBAL | RTLD_LAZY, RTLD_NOW | RTLD_GLOBAL | RTLD_NODELETE, etc.

The standard ones are global/local (scope), lazy/now (binding), and then the gnu only extensions are noload, nodelete, and deepbind. I've never really worked w/the last 3 so I'd feel ok omitting them for the sake of portability.

Should we have two enums, one for scope and one for binding?

Replace LibraryLoadOptions struct with separate RtldScope and RtldBinding enums, parsed from options list format. Changes: - New enums: RtldScope (Local/Global), RtldBinding (Lazy/Now) - Options format: [scope(global), binding(lazy)] - Unspecified options use POSIX defaults (local, lazy) - Forward compatible: unknown options ignored - Updated documentation with examples API: use_foreign_module(Lib, Fns, [scope(global)]) use_foreign_module(Lib, Fns, [scope(local), binding(now)]) use_foreign_module(Lib, Fns, []) % defaults Tested with NumPy - works correctly. J.J.'s robot
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Skgland commented Nov 6, 2025

Based on https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man3/dlopen.3.html

RTLD_LOCAL: This is the converse of RTLD_GLOBAL, and the default if neither flag is specified.

Based on this not specifying neither is the same as RTLD_LOCAL and both doesn't make much sense to me either, so again exactly one seems reasonable. So this can be separate enum/option from the rest of the flags.

One of the following two values must be included in flags: RTLD_LAZY, RTLD_NOW

I think this means exactly one of the values rather than at least one (also both appears somewhat contradictory). Based on that if I were to add it I would again use a separate enum.
Though I don't see much use in eagerly loading for now as scryer-prolog should have no undefined symbols
that would be resolved either way as all symbols are looked up manually after loading the library and they aren't (pre-)defined as weak linkage symbols in the binary.

Further I don't see much use in RTLD_NODELETE, RTLD_NOLOAD given the current exposed API surface.

RTLD_DEEPBIND sounds useful, but I think this can be left out for now and implemented/added once someone has a use-case for that.

Summary

In summary I would just add one scope enum with RTLD_GLOBAL and RTLD_LOCAL. The other values I would leave to be added when a use-case comes up.

If you want to add more or all of them I would make a separate eagerness enum for RTLD_LAZY and RTLD_NOW.
For RTLD_NODELETE, RTLD_NOLOAD and RTLD_DEEPBIND I would probably just add boolean options as there appear to be many reasonable combinations with each other as well as scope and eagerness.

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jjtolton commented Nov 6, 2025

Ok. I will revert to single scope enum argument, I don't really have a need for the eagerness/binding right now. 6dde2d8 this has both as a reference for later perhaps.

Remove RtldBinding enum and binding option from FFI interface. Libraries now always use RTLD_LAZY (lazy binding - symbols resolved as needed), which is the standard and typical choice. Changes: - Removed RtldBinding enum entirely - Keep only RtldScope enum (Local/Global) - Always use RTLD_LAZY in library loading - Simplified options parsing to handle only scope - Updated documentation to reflect scope-only API API: use_foreign_module(Lib, Fns, [scope(global)]) use_foreign_module(Lib, Fns, [scope(local)]) use_foreign_module(Lib, Fns, []) % default: local + lazy Tested with NumPy - works correctly. J.J.'s robot
@jjtolton jjtolton changed the title [WIP] Add RTLD_GLOBAL support to FFI for Python C extension compatibility Add RTLD_GLOBAL support to FFI for Python C extension compatibility Nov 6, 2025
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Skgland commented Nov 7, 2025

The ffi.rs part looks good.

Regarding the rest I have two points of contention.

  1. I think it would be better to throw an exception when an unknown option is encountered rather than ignoring it or failure. If an unknown option is encountered the user either made a mistake (i.e. misspelled an option) or they wrote their program for a newer scryer-prolog but are accidentally running it on an older version. Consider how confusing it could be if we had an older version with this predicate but without the scope option and you would then use scope(global) and it silently falling back to the default of scope(local).

  2. I think it would be better if the options handling would be done primarily on the prolog side.
    I.e. rather than having $load_foreign_lib/3 take an options array as a new argument have the prolog side parse the arguments and simply give it the scope atom (local or global) as the third argument.

See for example how this is done for process_create/3

process_create(Exe, Args, Options) :- call_with_error_context(process_create_(Exe, Args, Options), predicate-process_create/3).
process_create_(Exe, Args, Options) :-
must_be(chars, Exe),
must_be(list, Args),
maplist(must_be(chars), Args),
must_be(list, Options),
check_options(
[
option([stdin], valid_stdio, stdin(std), stdin(Stdin)),
option([stdout], valid_stdio, stdout(std), stdout(Stdout)),
option([stderr], valid_stdio, stderr(std), stderr(Stderr)),
option([env, environment], valid_env, environment([]), Env),
option([process], valid_uninit_process, process(_), process(Process)),
option([cwd], valid_cwd, cwd("."), cwd(Cwd))
],
Options,
process_create_option
),
Stdin =.. Stdin1,
Stdout =.. Stdout1,
Stderr =.. Stderr1,
simplify_env(Env, Env1),
'$process_create'(Exe, Args, Stdin1, Stdout1, Stderr1, Env1, Cwd, Process).

pub(crate) fn process_create(&mut self) -> CallResult {
fn stub_gen() -> Vec<FunctorElement> {
functor_stub(atom!("process_create"), 3)
}
// String
let exe_r = self.deref_register(1);
// [String,...]
let args_r = self.deref_register(2);
// [std] | [null] | [pipe, Var] | [file, String]
let stdin_r = self.deref_register(3);
let stdout_r = self.deref_register(4);
let stderr_r = self.deref_register(5);
// [env | environment, [[String, String],...]]
let env_r = self.deref_register(6);
// String ("." for keep current cwd)
let cwd_r = self.deref_register(7);
// Var
let pid_r = self.deref_register(8);

jjtolton added a commit to jjtolton/scryer-prolog that referenced this pull request Nov 8, 2025
Move FFI options parsing from Rust to Prolog side following the pattern used by library(process). This improves code organization and provides better error messages. Changes: - Parse and validate options in ffi.pl before passing to Rust - Pass simple atom (local/global) to Rust instead of options list - Throw domain_error for unknown options (no silent ignoring) - Throw domain_error for duplicate scope options - Throw domain_error for invalid scope values - Add call_with_error_context for proper error reporting Tests: - Add test for unknown option error - Add test for duplicate option error - Add test for invalid scope value error - Verify existing FFI functionality unchanged - All tests pass (36 passed) Addresses feedback from PR mthom#3144 review. 🤖 Generated with [Claude Code](https://claude.com/claude-code) Co-Authored-By: Claude <noreply@anthropic.com>
Move FFI options parsing from Rust to Prolog side following the pattern used by library(process). This improves code organization and provides better error messages. Changes: - Parse and validate options in ffi.pl before passing to Rust - Pass simple atom (local/global) to Rust instead of options list - Throw domain_error for unknown options (no silent ignoring) - Throw domain_error for duplicate scope options - Throw domain_error for invalid scope value - Add call_with_error_context for proper error reporting Tests: - Add test for unknown option error - Add test for duplicate option error - Add test for invalid scope value error - Verify existing FFI functionality unchanged - All tests pass (36 passed) Addresses feedback from PR mthom#3144 review.
@jjtolton jjtolton force-pushed the rtld-global-support branch from 8f75a6e to 1e1853e Compare November 8, 2025 18:27
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