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Aaron Meyerowitz
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Here is a comment because you say that you want something of this kind to be true. You are not really generalizing Erdos-Ko-Rado because of your condition that the intersection be as trivial as possible. I think maybe you should change your your second condition to something like

  1. There is no subspace $W$ of dimension $2k-1$ so that the subspaces $V_i \cap W$ are pairwise intersecting. (It might be that dimension $k+2$ is a strong enough condition.)

I feel that the set version (to be given shortly) should be known and that the answer is that for fixed $k$ there is an absolute bound $N_k$ so that $N_{n,k}=N_k$ for all large enough $n.$ However I've never found it. I'll define $M_{n,k}$ to be your $N_{n,k}-1$, therethe maximum size for a family that is pairwise intersecting.

So, in an $n$ element set what is the largest size $M_{n,k}$ (if there is one) of a family of $k$ element sets $V_1,V_2,\cdots$ such that

  1. Their intersection is empty

    Their intersection is empty.

  2. There is no set $W$ of size $2k-1$ such that the sets $V _i \cap W$ are pairwise intersecting.

    There is no set $W$ of size $2k-1$ such that the sets $V _i \cap W$ are pairwise intersecting.

  3. Every pair from the family has non-empty intersection.

    Every pair from the family has non-empty intersection.

Without a condition 2:

  • For $k=2$ it is $3$ independent of $n.$
  • For $k=3$ you can do the set version of what @Jan did, $1+3(n-3)$ triples $V_0=\{a,b,c\}$ along with all triples intersecting it in two points. But my condition $2)$ rules that out. For that condition there better be at least $6$ points in the union. One can get $M_{n,3} \ge 10$ by taking a subset $S$ of size $6$ and for each of the $10$ pairs $T,S-T$ of $3$ element subsets taking one. That assures no disjoint pair and the sets can be chosen to satisfy the other conditions. Obviously there are only finitely many configurations up to isomorphism. Nicest is an orbit of $A_5$ (the weird embedding in $S_6$) but as long as you include four sets such as $abc,ade,bdf,cef$ you are already OK (the $\binom42=6$ intersections give all the points). That is maximal in that you can't add any $3$ element sets. I think the only other maximal family in that sense is the $7$ lines of a Fano plane. So I would conjecture that $M_{3,n}=10$ for all $n \ge 6$ and the is achieved by a family with $|\cup V_i|=6.$ I might even have proved those things (many years ago) for $k=3$ but I don't know anything about $k \gt 3.$

I strongly suspect that for larger $k$ a similar result holds and suspect the same is true in the vector version.

Set conjecture: For families satisfying the conditions 1,2,3 above there is an upper bound on the size of the union and (hence) only a finite number of configurations up to isomorphism. The upper bound might be $k^2-k+1$ when $k$ is a prime power. $M_{2k,k}=\frac12\binom{2k}{k}$ and I'd guess that is $M_{n,k}$ for all $n$ with a union of size $2k.$

I'd really be interested to find out if this a known result (or false, or conjectured.)

Here is a comment because you say that you want something of this kind to be true. You are not really generalizing Erdos-Ko-Rado because of your condition that the intersection be as trivial as possible. I think maybe you should change your your second condition to something like

  1. There is no subspace $W$ of dimension $2k-1$ so that the subspaces $V_i \cap W$ are pairwise intersecting. (It might be that dimension $k+2$ is a strong enough condition.)

I feel that the set version (to be given shortly) should be known and that the answer is that for fixed $k$ there is an absolute bound $N_k$ so that $N_{n,k}=N_k$ for all large enough $n.$ However I've never found it. I'll define $M_{n,k}$ to be your $N_{n,k}-1$, there maximum size for a family that is pairwise intersecting.

So, in an $n$ element set what is the largest size $M_{n,k}$ (if there is one) of a family of $k$ element sets $V_1,V_2,\cdots$ such that

  1. Their intersection is empty
  2. There is no set $W$ of size $2k-1$ such that the sets $V _i \cap W$ are pairwise intersecting.
  3. Every pair from the family has non-empty intersection.

Without a condition 2:

  • For $k=2$ it is $3$ independent of $n.$
  • For $k=3$ you can do the set version of what @Jan did, $1+3(n-3)$ triples $V_0=\{a,b,c\}$ along with all triples intersecting it in two points. But my condition $2)$ rules that out. For that condition there better be at least $6$ points in the union. One can get $M_{n,3} \ge 10$ by taking a subset $S$ of size $6$ and for each of the $10$ pairs $T,S-T$ of $3$ element subsets taking one. That assures no disjoint pair and the sets can be chosen to satisfy the other conditions. Obviously there are only finitely many configurations up to isomorphism. Nicest is an orbit of $A_5$ (the weird embedding in $S_6$) but as long as you include four sets such as $abc,ade,bdf,cef$ you are already OK (the $\binom42=6$ intersections give all the points). That is maximal in that you can't add any $3$ element sets. I think the only other maximal family in that sense is the $7$ lines of a Fano plane. So I would conjecture that $M_{3,n}=10$ for all $n \ge 6$ and the is achieved by a family with $|\cup V_i|=6.$ I might even have proved those things (many years ago) for $k=3$ but I don't know anything about $k \gt 3.$

I strongly suspect that for larger $k$ a similar result holds and suspect the same is true in the vector version.

Set conjecture: For families satisfying the conditions 1,2,3 above there is an upper bound on the size of the union and (hence) only a finite number of configurations up to isomorphism. The upper bound might be $k^2-k+1$ when $k$ is a prime power. $M_{2k,k}=\frac12\binom{2k}{k}$ and I'd guess that is $M_{n,k}$ for all $n$ with a union of size $2k.$

I'd really be interested to find out if this a known result (or false, or conjectured.)

Here is a comment because you say that you want something of this kind to be true. You are not really generalizing Erdos-Ko-Rado because of your condition that the intersection be as trivial as possible. I think maybe you should change your your second condition to something like

  1. There is no subspace $W$ of dimension $2k-1$ so that the subspaces $V_i \cap W$ are pairwise intersecting. (It might be that dimension $k+2$ is a strong enough condition.)

I feel that the set version (to be given shortly) should be known and that the answer is that for fixed $k$ there is an absolute bound $N_k$ so that $N_{n,k}=N_k$ for all large enough $n.$ However I've never found it. I'll define $M_{n,k}$ to be your $N_{n,k}-1$, the maximum size for a family that is pairwise intersecting.

So, in an $n$ element set what is the largest size $M_{n,k}$ (if there is one) of a family of $k$ element sets $V_1,V_2,\cdots$ such that

  1. Their intersection is empty.

  2. There is no set $W$ of size $2k-1$ such that the sets $V _i \cap W$ are pairwise intersecting.

  3. Every pair from the family has non-empty intersection.

Without a condition 2:

  • For $k=2$ it is $3$ independent of $n.$
  • For $k=3$ you can do the set version of what @Jan did, $1+3(n-3)$ triples $V_0=\{a,b,c\}$ along with all triples intersecting it in two points. But my condition $2)$ rules that out. For that condition there better be at least $6$ points in the union. One can get $M_{n,3} \ge 10$ by taking a subset $S$ of size $6$ and for each of the $10$ pairs $T,S-T$ of $3$ element subsets taking one. That assures no disjoint pair and the sets can be chosen to satisfy the other conditions. Obviously there are only finitely many configurations up to isomorphism. Nicest is an orbit of $A_5$ (the weird embedding in $S_6$) but as long as you include four sets such as $abc,ade,bdf,cef$ you are already OK (the $\binom42=6$ intersections give all the points). That is maximal in that you can't add any $3$ element sets. I think the only other maximal family in that sense is the $7$ lines of a Fano plane. So I would conjecture that $M_{3,n}=10$ for all $n \ge 6$ and the is achieved by a family with $|\cup V_i|=6.$ I might even have proved those things (many years ago) for $k=3$ but I don't know anything about $k \gt 3.$

I strongly suspect that for larger $k$ a similar result holds and suspect the same is true in the vector version.

Set conjecture: For families satisfying the conditions 1,2,3 above there is an upper bound on the size of the union and (hence) only a finite number of configurations up to isomorphism. The upper bound might be $k^2-k+1$ when $k$ is a prime power. $M_{2k,k}=\frac12\binom{2k}{k}$ and I'd guess that is $M_{n,k}$ for all $n$ with a union of size $2k.$

I'd really be interested to find out if this a known result (or false, or conjectured.)

Post Undeleted by Aaron Meyerowitz
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Aaron Meyerowitz
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Here is a comment because you say that you want something of this kind to be true. You are not really generalizing Erdos-Ko-Rado because of your condition that the intersection be as trivial as possible. I think maybe you should change your your second condition to something like

  1. There is no subspace $W$ of dimension $2k-1$ so that the subspaces $V_i \cap W$ are pairwise intersecting. (It might be that dimension $k+2$ is a strong enough condition.)

Maybe you should tryI feel that the set version of your problem: In an $n$ element set what is(to be given shortly) should be known and that the largest size $N$ of a family ofanswer is that for fixed $k$ element sets suchthere is an absolute bound $N_k$ so that their intersection is empty, but no pair has empty intersection? For$N_{n,k}=N_k$ for all large enough $k=2$$n.$ However I've never found it is impossible. For $k=3$ you can haveI'll define $10$ by taking a subset$M_{n,k}$ to be your $S$ of$N_{n,k}-1$, there maximum size $6$ and for each of the $10$ pairs $T,S-T$ ofa family that is pairwise intersecting.

So, in an $3$$n$ element subsets taking one. That assures no disjoint pair and the sets can be chosen to satisfyset what is the other conditions. Obviouslylargest size $M_{n,k}$ (if there are only finitely many configurations up to isomorphism. Nicest is an orbitone) of $A_6$ but as long as you include three sets such as $abc,ade,bcf$ you are already OK. Or take all sets including a majorityfamily of a given $3$ or $5$ element set. That is maximal in that you can't add any $3$$k$ element sets. I think the only other maximal family in that sense is the $7$ lines of$V_1,V_2,\cdots$ such that

  1. Their intersection is empty
  2. There is no set $W$ of size $2k-1$ such that the sets $V _i \cap W$ are pairwise intersecting.
  3. Every pair from the family has non-empty intersection.

Without a Fano plane.condition 2:

  • For $k=2$ it is $3$ independent of $n.$
  • For $k=3$ you can do the set version of what @Jan did, $1+3(n-3)$ triples $V_0=\{a,b,c\}$ along with all triples intersecting it in two points. But my condition $2)$ rules that out. For that condition there better be at least $6$ points in the union. One can get $M_{n,3} \ge 10$ by taking a subset $S$ of size $6$ and for each of the $10$ pairs $T,S-T$ of $3$ element subsets taking one. That assures no disjoint pair and the sets can be chosen to satisfy the other conditions. Obviously there are only finitely many configurations up to isomorphism. Nicest is an orbit of $A_5$ (the weird embedding in $S_6$) but as long as you include four sets such as $abc,ade,bdf,cef$ you are already OK (the $\binom42=6$ intersections give all the points). That is maximal in that you can't add any $3$ element sets. I think the only other maximal family in that sense is the $7$ lines of a Fano plane. So I would conjecture that $M_{3,n}=10$ for all $n \ge 6$ and the is achieved by a family with $|\cup V_i|=6.$ I might even have proved those things (many years ago) for $k=3$ but I don't know anything about $k \gt 3.$

Set conjecture: ConsiderFor families of $k$ element sets of integers which pairwise intetsectsatisfying the conditions 1, have union of size $2k,$ but have empty intersection. Then2,3 above there is an upper bound on the size of the union and (hence) only a finite number of configurations up to isomorphism. The upper bound might be $k^2-k+1$ when $k$ is a prime power. $M_{2k,k}=\frac12\binom{2k}{k}$ and I'd guess that is $M_{n,k}$ for all $n$ with a union of size $2k.$

I'd really be interested to find out if this a known result (or false, or conjectured.)

You are not really generalizing Erdos-Ko-Rado.

Maybe you should try the set version of your problem: In an $n$ element set what is the largest size $N$ of a family of $k$ element sets such that their intersection is empty, but no pair has empty intersection? For $k=2$ it is impossible. For $k=3$ you can have $10$ by taking a subset $S$ of size $6$ and for each of the $10$ pairs $T,S-T$ of $3$ element subsets taking one. That assures no disjoint pair and the sets can be chosen to satisfy the other conditions. Obviously there are only finitely many configurations up to isomorphism. Nicest is an orbit of $A_6$ but as long as you include three sets such as $abc,ade,bcf$ you are already OK. Or take all sets including a majority of a given $3$ or $5$ element set. That is maximal in that you can't add any $3$ element sets. I think the only other maximal family in that sense is the $7$ lines of a Fano plane.

Set conjecture: Consider families of $k$ element sets of integers which pairwise intetsect, have union of size $2k,$ but have empty intersection. Then there is an upper bound on the size of the union and (hence) only a finite number of configurations up to isomorphism.

Here is a comment because you say that you want something of this kind to be true. You are not really generalizing Erdos-Ko-Rado because of your condition that the intersection be as trivial as possible. I think maybe you should change your your second condition to something like

  1. There is no subspace $W$ of dimension $2k-1$ so that the subspaces $V_i \cap W$ are pairwise intersecting. (It might be that dimension $k+2$ is a strong enough condition.)

I feel that the set version (to be given shortly) should be known and that the answer is that for fixed $k$ there is an absolute bound $N_k$ so that $N_{n,k}=N_k$ for all large enough $n.$ However I've never found it. I'll define $M_{n,k}$ to be your $N_{n,k}-1$, there maximum size for a family that is pairwise intersecting.

So, in an $n$ element set what is the largest size $M_{n,k}$ (if there is one) of a family of $k$ element sets $V_1,V_2,\cdots$ such that

  1. Their intersection is empty
  2. There is no set $W$ of size $2k-1$ such that the sets $V _i \cap W$ are pairwise intersecting.
  3. Every pair from the family has non-empty intersection.

Without a condition 2:

  • For $k=2$ it is $3$ independent of $n.$
  • For $k=3$ you can do the set version of what @Jan did, $1+3(n-3)$ triples $V_0=\{a,b,c\}$ along with all triples intersecting it in two points. But my condition $2)$ rules that out. For that condition there better be at least $6$ points in the union. One can get $M_{n,3} \ge 10$ by taking a subset $S$ of size $6$ and for each of the $10$ pairs $T,S-T$ of $3$ element subsets taking one. That assures no disjoint pair and the sets can be chosen to satisfy the other conditions. Obviously there are only finitely many configurations up to isomorphism. Nicest is an orbit of $A_5$ (the weird embedding in $S_6$) but as long as you include four sets such as $abc,ade,bdf,cef$ you are already OK (the $\binom42=6$ intersections give all the points). That is maximal in that you can't add any $3$ element sets. I think the only other maximal family in that sense is the $7$ lines of a Fano plane. So I would conjecture that $M_{3,n}=10$ for all $n \ge 6$ and the is achieved by a family with $|\cup V_i|=6.$ I might even have proved those things (many years ago) for $k=3$ but I don't know anything about $k \gt 3.$

Set conjecture: For families satisfying the conditions 1,2,3 above there is an upper bound on the size of the union and (hence) only a finite number of configurations up to isomorphism. The upper bound might be $k^2-k+1$ when $k$ is a prime power. $M_{2k,k}=\frac12\binom{2k}{k}$ and I'd guess that is $M_{n,k}$ for all $n$ with a union of size $2k.$

I'd really be interested to find out if this a known result (or false, or conjectured.)

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Aaron Meyerowitz
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You are not really generalizing Erdos-Ko-Rado.

Maybe you should try the set version of your problem: In an $n$ element set what is the largest size $N$ of a family of $k$ element sets such that their intersection is empty, but no pair has empty intersection? For $k=2$ it is impossible. For $k=3$ you can have $10$ by taking a subset $S$ of size $6$ and for each of the $10$ pairs $T,S-T$ of $3$ element subsets taking one. That assures no disjoint pair and the sets can be chosen to satisfy the other conditions. Obviously there are only finitely many configurations up to isomorphism. Nicest is an orbit of $A_6$ but as long as you include three sets such as $abc,ade,bcf$ you are already OK. Or take all sets including a majority of a given $3$ or $5$ element set. That is maximal in that you can't add any $3$ element sets. I think the only other maximal family in that sense is the $7$ lines of a Fano plane.

I strongly suspect that for larger $k$ a similar result holds and suspect the same is true in the vector version.

Set conjecture: Consider families of $k$ element sets of integers which pairwise intersectintetsect, have union of size $2k,$ but have empty intersection. Then there is an upper bound on the size of the union and (hence) only a finite number of configurations up to isomorphism.

You are not really generalizing Erdos-Ko-Rado.

Maybe you should try the set version of your problem: In an $n$ element set what is the largest size $N$ of a family of $k$ element sets such that their intersection is empty, but no pair has empty intersection? For $k=2$ it is impossible. For $k=3$ you can have $10$ by taking a subset $S$ of size $6$ and for each of the $10$ pairs $T,S-T$ of $3$ element subsets taking one. That assures no disjoint pair and the sets can be chosen to satisfy the other conditions. Obviously there are only finitely many configurations up to isomorphism. Nicest is an orbit of $A_6$ but as long as you include three sets such as $abc,ade,bcf$ you are already OK. Or take all sets including a majority of a given $3$ or $5$ element set. That is maximal in that you can't add any $3$ element sets. I think the only other maximal family in that sense is the $7$ lines of a Fano plane.

I strongly suspect that for larger $k$ a similar result holds and suspect the same is true in the vector version.

Set conjecture: Consider families of $k$ element sets of integers which pairwise intersect, but have empty intersection. Then there is an upper bound on the size of the union and (hence) only a finite number of configurations up to isomorphism.

You are not really generalizing Erdos-Ko-Rado.

Maybe you should try the set version of your problem: In an $n$ element set what is the largest size $N$ of a family of $k$ element sets such that their intersection is empty, but no pair has empty intersection? For $k=2$ it is impossible. For $k=3$ you can have $10$ by taking a subset $S$ of size $6$ and for each of the $10$ pairs $T,S-T$ of $3$ element subsets taking one. That assures no disjoint pair and the sets can be chosen to satisfy the other conditions. Obviously there are only finitely many configurations up to isomorphism. Nicest is an orbit of $A_6$ but as long as you include three sets such as $abc,ade,bcf$ you are already OK. Or take all sets including a majority of a given $3$ or $5$ element set. That is maximal in that you can't add any $3$ element sets. I think the only other maximal family in that sense is the $7$ lines of a Fano plane.

I strongly suspect that for larger $k$ a similar result holds and suspect the same is true in the vector version.

Set conjecture: Consider families of $k$ element sets of integers which pairwise intetsect, have union of size $2k,$ but have empty intersection. Then there is an upper bound on the size of the union and (hence) only a finite number of configurations up to isomorphism.

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Aaron Meyerowitz
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